Unchurch, Part One (Introduction)

Hey, the church we currently attend is somewhat traditional from an activity stand point, but we don’t attend very many activities.  What we do participate in is our home group.  It has become a life giving opportunity to live out what Jesus is to us and others.  We struggle to trust God with each other, serve one another, celebrate the joy’s together and so on!  We are really being church to each other and can extend that life to others.

Chris, when you say passionate about God but particularly unpassionate about the church, I’m thinking you must mean the church as in the “traditional church”??  Since the church is described in scripture as the bride of Christ, I’d think He’d want us to be passionate about her…

I’m wondering what even qualifies as traditional church anymore since many traditional churches are striving to reach out in new ways. Maybe there should be a semi-traditional label of some sort thrown in there, too :)

Hey Chris,
Great ideas.  Our church is not your grandmother’s church.  We have tons of people that are coming from situations that have hurt them or where they’ve just been plain bored.  I don’t believe that just having a contemporary service though is the answer.  We are out on the edge with our worship, but it’s more than that.  It’s being culturally relevant in everything we do.  It’s also being highly authentic, letting everyone know we don’t have all the answers and we’re just as mixed up as the next person.

And if you’re going to be culturally relevant it means playing some songs that are not “Christian”.  We’ve done some U2, Beatles, Huey Lewis & the News, and other stuff. 

We are having the time of our lives in Baltimore!  And many are finding Jesus for the first and second time through the ministry of LifePoint.

Blessings on you.

Dave

I’ve found myself looking for a new breed of churches, one that is organized, yet not.  I’ve grown up in the traditional church and I see it as too organized.  It looks more like a theatre production than a gathering of Christ following believers.  There’s a time schedule, a bulletin which tells you who’s doing what when (or in the theatre world, a program, if you will), the pastor has his word from G-d all planned and written out, the songs are all planned out, everything is ALL planned out.  It feels like you have to entertain the congregation.  Is this what G-d truly wanted?  Is this how we worship G-d now?  How does this leave any room for the Holy Spirit to work and move in the service?  Not me.  I want something more, something deeper.

I understand things need to be halfway organized so that they don’t fall apart, but things have just become over organized in my eyes.  I think the pastor should just say whatever comes to mind, the songs should also follow this, no bulletin—surprise me, and the whole setup needs to change, a church that is G-d focused.  I want to see a church that makes true believers, not pew-warmers, people that are always trying to find new, deeper way to get closer to G-d in every area of there lives.

Hello all,
I’ve been in the Army for 13 years.  My wife and I have had to PCS (relocate) 5 times.  That means changing churches at least five times.  I’ve also had to find new churches, or at least new chaplains during deployments.  What I’ve found is that you can’t necessarily tell whether or not the church is accurate based upon it’s doctrine.  What I’ve found is that the church is close to God and scripturally sound based upon the leadership and the worshipers.  Since I move constantly I’ve never ever seen the church as having a required form.  Sometimes I like form.  For instance Sarah and I are attending a Catholic Church.  Talk about form.  What we’ve found is that the things we thought we knew such as, “Catholics worship Mary, Catholics pray to idols and saints, and Catholics believe the Pope is sinless,” just aren’t true.  Those are assumptions that are based upon ignorance.  What Catholics believe is that Jesus is obedient to Mary (he was at the wedding at Cana) and that believers can ask deceased Christians to pray for us just as we can the living.  After all, I would ask you to pray for me.  Why couldn’t I ask Jesus’ own mother to pray for me?  Is it just that she’s dead?  Death isn’t the end.  It’s merely a transition, so why wouldn’t my fellow Christians who have gone on be concerned with the well being of the Church?  Oh, and Catholics believe that the Pope sins.

What I’ve found throughout my life is that all Christians have many more similarities than they do differences.  We all believe in the bible and we can all defend our positions biblically.  What then are our differences?  Our differences are man made and the fights they cause are not based upon love or any of Christ’s teachings.

God gave man life and the ability and desire to worship Him freely.  He also gave us the knowledge to use this life for Him and through Him so that we might serve Him and one another.  God also gave us free will.  God is perfect.  Man is not.  Our differences are created by man’s misunderstanding of God’s truths.  Even so, God will always find ways to spread the message and get the word out.  That is why the Core of what we believe has been unchanged for thousands of years.
“For God so loved the world that He gave his only son, that whoever believes in Him will not perish but will have eternal life.”  We’ve fought over the stupid things, but the big things, especially the two greatest commandments, have always been the same.

  In our quest to perfect dogma we have tended to trample ” Love the Lord your God above all else.  Love your neighbor as yourself.”  If we could just follow those two commands our Churches would be the strongest institutions in the world.  They would be what God wants them to be.  We could be closer to the Church that He deserves.  It’s only by him that we’ll be made worthy though.  Why is it that we refuse to pull the plank of pride and self-righteuosness from our own eye before trying to correct one another?  That is not love.  That is simply more sin.

Before you all say anything about Catholocism, I might remind you that God used Catholics for thousands of years.  The differences really are that nominal.  It’s Satan and our own evil desires that cause dissention within the Church.  Too bad we’re only human.

“Love the Lord your God above all else.  Love your neighbor as yourself.”  “Forgiveness covers a multitude of sins.”

True, True.  So then, you come to the real problem and my greatest annoyance: uncommitted “Christians” that are satisfied with where they are in life.  These are the people make a mess of things, because of the sin in their lives.  It offends them when they see another striving for perfection, so what do they do about it?  They don’t see it as something they should be striving for as well; instead they allow Satan to use them in emotionally beat that person up.

What is the key to making truly committed Christians?  It seems that people don’t fear G-d, they don’t care, they don’t feel a burning need for Him..

I just don’t understand.  What are we doing wrong?  I see the pastor (and his wife) doing their best, working their tails off 24/7.  And for what purpose?  Nothing ever changes. 

I have been having an urge to change things recently.  Everything isn’t clear yet.  I’m just waiting for His guidance and direction.

I never said anything about being uncommitted or being satisfied.  As a matter of fact, because you are searching for truth, not your truth but God’s, it’s quite the opposite.  I am committed to Christ.  I am not committed to a particular doctrine.  All churches are right in some ways and wrong in others.  You know you’ve found a good church when the church tries to change those things that are wrong.  That means that their pride is not in the way and they are committed to Christ and open to the teachings of scripture and the movement of the Holy Spirit.  What I am saying is that I HAVE to move every few years because of my occupation.  What I’ve found is that your denomination is not a determining factor in whether or not the church follows God.  You must sift through all of man’s inventions and misinterpretations to get at God’s truths sometimes.  You can only do that through dedication, prayer, and biblical study.

God has a time and a place for everyone at all times.  Not just for a couple of hours on Sundays.  All times.  Not all of those times or places are comfortable.  My recommendation is that you be at peace because you know God is in charge of your life.  You should be at peace, pray, make any changes you need to make to get in line with His will, and then just be patient and listen.  Once He’s told you what to do, there is nothing wrong with making sure what He told you fit with scripture.  That’s how you know it’s His will and not yours.  Maybe you want to leave, but He wants you there.  Who knows. 

I don’t know what God wants you to do right now.  All I can tell you is that you can find peace because He is in charge.  If you don’t find peace then perhaps you haven’t given Him control.  I don’t know.  I Psalms 46:10 he commands us to, “Be stil,l and know that I am God.”  Even though your situation may be uncomfortable or unsatisfying, you may find peace in the fact that God is in charge of your life.

I hope I made some sense and I hope I wasn’t offensive.  I just want to demonstrate how truth isn’t found in denomination.  You don’t have to call yourself a Baptist or a Catholic to be saved by Christ.  Men have killed each other for years for these minor misunderstandings.  That cannot be of God.  Thank you very much Rebekah.  I look forward to your response.

Respectfully,

John

Thank you very much, John.  I believe G-d spoke to me thru your message.  Thanks. 

I have also moved around quite a bit, because of my parent’s jobs, so I’ve seen several different churches (although all of the same denomination.)

I haven’t always been looking for G-d’s favor as strongly as I do now.  He’s really been working in me this past year.  However, patience and trust have always been hard things for me, but I’m learning—I’m still quite young and I feel closer and closer to Him everyday.  Pray has actually become a hobby for me now.

I wish more people could see church as you do; but at the same time, don’t you need some type of set of beliefs?  So that you can be sure that you won’t be led astray.

What exactly is this peace you speak of?  I seriously feel that I have given Him control of my life and I think I have this peace, but I just want to make sure we’re on the same page.

Random thought: You know, you don’t talk/think like most Catholics.  (Lol.)

Rebekah,

I think I have a set of beliefs.  I hope that they are the right ones. I obviously believe them to be.  I believe that we are Christians first and members of a denomination second.  I believe that full emersion baptism or sprinkling really don’t matter.  I know which I prefer but I don’t think God sees it as being important.  I believe that the Eucharist represents the body and blood of the risen Lord while communion is a commemoration of the last supper.  I don’t think God really cares which you celebrate so long as you celebrate the sacrifice and victory of His Son.  We all know that Mary was a virgin, but we don’t know whether or not she was sinless.  It doesn’t matter to me.  Is it right to treat her with respect.  Of course.  God Himself chose her to be the mother of the Messiah.  God sent the message through Gabriel saying “Blessed are you amongst women.”  No Catholic that I’ve met has ever worshiped her that I know of.  They just treat her with respect and ask her to talk to her Son for us just as I might ask you to pray for me.  The point is that these differences are miniscule.  I myself can’t understand why we place so much emphasis on these trivial matters.  We miss the big picture and the point of the scriptures when we argue like a bunch of Pharisees.  It’s human nature I suppose.

Please pray about it before thinking that God spoke to you through me.  I’m honored if He did.  It’s just too much responsibility if I’m wrong.  I just want you to know that I’ve been wrong about things before. :)

You probably already do have this peace.  It’s just that people stress this decision of whether to stay, go, or when they have to find a new church home.  All I want to say is that if God is in control then you will recognize what you are supposed to do when you are supposed to do it.

You have the right to think that I’m wrong or to even tell me.  All I know is that I’m saved and that my wife is saved and I believe you are too, and that we all fall under the grace of God and that we are each where God wants us to be right now.  Thank you and God bless you.

Respectfully,

John

When I said that G-d spoke to me thru your message I meant He more of gave me a reminder to uplift my spirit on another concern in my life that has nothing in the least bit to do with our unchurch conversation.

I feel G-d wants me to stay and work within the four walls of the church, but I also feel Him moving me toward doing something more, working outside the box.  I feel like I’m on an unending path of seeking G-d and I just want more, but I find this waiting to be very trying.